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		<title>Comment on What Do They Mean by &#8220;American Exceptionalism?&#8221; by The New Centrist</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/culture-and-values/what-do-they-mean-by-american-exceptionalism/comment-page-1/#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Centrist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66239#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Hi Stephen,

Happy New Year and congrats on the soon to be launched new site!

You are on to something in declaring American Exceptionalism means different things to different people. As far as definitions, the most simple and vague one is the U.S. is different from other nation-states. We are unique. This prompts the question, how are we different? 

You mention a few examples in your post but you left out an important element of what you describe as &quot;the third and bizzarre form of &#039;American Exceptionalism&#039;&quot;. Namely, the rights we have in the U.S. and which are enshrined in our consitution are given to us by our Creator, not by our government or our political leaders. The notion that political rights are provided to by a divine Creator are far different from the notion of rights in other liberal democracies like the UK and France. This is an incredibly important element of American political history and political development. 

Continuing on the importance definitions, I encourage you to reassess the notion that the US went to war against Iraq &quot;because neo-conservatives in the United States thought they could plant a democracy in the middle of the Islamic world in order to win a war on terrorism.&quot; Neocons largely supported the Iraq War but the primary policy makers and decision makers of the war were not neoconservatives unless you use a definition so broad as to include President George W. Bush, VP Cheney, Sec of Defense Rumsfeld and Sec of State Rice. I realize the Left uses the neocon label in a cavelier manner but it is important to be specific in our language. The neocons, with the exception of Undersecretary of Def. Wolfowitz, were advisers and pundits. Neocons supported the war, but the people who were in the actual positions of power were not neocons. This is an incredibly important distinction to make. 

--TNC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stephen,</p>
<p>Happy New Year and congrats on the soon to be launched new site!</p>
<p>You are on to something in declaring American Exceptionalism means different things to different people. As far as definitions, the most simple and vague one is the U.S. is different from other nation-states. We are unique. This prompts the question, how are we different? </p>
<p>You mention a few examples in your post but you left out an important element of what you describe as &#8220;the third and bizzarre form of &#8216;American Exceptionalism&#8217;&#8221;. Namely, the rights we have in the U.S. and which are enshrined in our consitution are given to us by our Creator, not by our government or our political leaders. The notion that political rights are provided to by a divine Creator are far different from the notion of rights in other liberal democracies like the UK and France. This is an incredibly important element of American political history and political development. </p>
<p>Continuing on the importance definitions, I encourage you to reassess the notion that the US went to war against Iraq &#8220;because neo-conservatives in the United States thought they could plant a democracy in the middle of the Islamic world in order to win a war on terrorism.&#8221; Neocons largely supported the Iraq War but the primary policy makers and decision makers of the war were not neoconservatives unless you use a definition so broad as to include President George W. Bush, VP Cheney, Sec of Defense Rumsfeld and Sec of State Rice. I realize the Left uses the neocon label in a cavelier manner but it is important to be specific in our language. The neocons, with the exception of Undersecretary of Def. Wolfowitz, were advisers and pundits. Neocons supported the war, but the people who were in the actual positions of power were not neocons. This is an incredibly important distinction to make. </p>
<p>&#8211;TNC</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pick Up the Axe &#8211;  Strike at the Root: CenterMovement.org Preparing to Rebuild Democracy by Larry Cebula</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/campaign-reform/pick-up-the-axe-strike-at-the-root-centermovement-org-preparing-to-rebuild-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Cebula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66858#comment-321</guid>
		<description>This ex-Republican and current progressive supports all three. And it is nice to see a genuine centrist post here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This ex-Republican and current progressive supports all three. And it is nice to see a genuine centrist post here!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Our Military Needs to Boost Morals, not Morale by jay</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/defense/our-military-needs-to-boost-morals-not-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66676#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Reedited/ignore earlier post:

“None of this type of behavior would be tolerated in a corporate setting, where the specter of litigation over charges of sexual harassment hangs like a Damoclean sword. Yet, even two decades removed from the Navy’s 1991 Tailhook scandal, it remains a deeply ingrained part of military culture.”

Hogwash. I’ve had a career in the military and now work for a fortune 500 company. Comparing shipboard 24/7 life to 8 hour work days in glass towers is ridiculous. What many watch on their TV screens after they go home each night is several times as sexist and homophobic as what happened on the Enterprise.  This is not to say that was an appropriate thing for an XO to do. Indeed, Captain Honors has been relieved of his command and DADT is dead--and that&#039;s a good thing, though I agree it should have happened before. But please explain how this somehow indicates that the military doesn’t get it and that this behavior is pervasive in uniform? To the contrary, it&#039;s an isolated incident and that&#039;s why it got the attention it did.  IMHO, sexual harassment is no more pervasive in the military than it is in the private world. Those that say otherwise likely haven’t served in both worlds since 1991.  Have you ever noticed how headlines are written about Cops, Politicians and Military members crossing the line, but we never hear about Walmart, GE and Apple employees that do foolish or illegal things?  It&#039;s certainly not because those is private enterprise are all angels and all law abiding 24/7.  When it comes to system-wide honor, duty and respect, I&#039;d put my former shipmates right up there with the best in the private world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reedited/ignore earlier post:</p>
<p>“None of this type of behavior would be tolerated in a corporate setting, where the specter of litigation over charges of sexual harassment hangs like a Damoclean sword. Yet, even two decades removed from the Navy’s 1991 Tailhook scandal, it remains a deeply ingrained part of military culture.”</p>
<p>Hogwash. I’ve had a career in the military and now work for a fortune 500 company. Comparing shipboard 24/7 life to 8 hour work days in glass towers is ridiculous. What many watch on their TV screens after they go home each night is several times as sexist and homophobic as what happened on the Enterprise.  This is not to say that was an appropriate thing for an XO to do. Indeed, Captain Honors has been relieved of his command and DADT is dead&#8211;and that&#8217;s a good thing, though I agree it should have happened before. But please explain how this somehow indicates that the military doesn’t get it and that this behavior is pervasive in uniform? To the contrary, it&#8217;s an isolated incident and that&#8217;s why it got the attention it did.  IMHO, sexual harassment is no more pervasive in the military than it is in the private world. Those that say otherwise likely haven’t served in both worlds since 1991.  Have you ever noticed how headlines are written about Cops, Politicians and Military members crossing the line, but we never hear about Walmart, GE and Apple employees that do foolish or illegal things?  It&#8217;s certainly not because those is private enterprise are all angels and all law abiding 24/7.  When it comes to system-wide honor, duty and respect, I&#8217;d put my former shipmates right up there with the best in the private world.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Our Military Needs to Boost Morals, not Morale by Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/defense/our-military-needs-to-boost-morals-not-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66676#comment-305</guid>
		<description>&quot;None of this type of behavior would be tolerated in a corporate setting, where the specter of litigation over charges of sexual harassment hangs like a Damoclean sword.  Yet, even two decades removed from the Navy’s 1991 Tailhook scandal, it remains a deeply ingrained part of military culture.&quot;

Hogwash.  I&#039;ve recently finished a career in the military and now work for a fortune 500 company.  Comparing shipboard 24/7 life to 8 hour work days in glass tower is ridiculous.  What many watch on your TV screen after they go home each night is several times as sexist and homophobic.  Captain Honors has been fired and DADT is dead.  Please explain how this somehow indicate that the military doesn&#039;t get it and that this behavior is pervasive?  There are bad eggs in the coporate world and they make headlines--and sexual harassment is no more pervasive in the military than it is in the private world. Those that say otherwise haven&#039;t served in both worlds since 1991.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;None of this type of behavior would be tolerated in a corporate setting, where the specter of litigation over charges of sexual harassment hangs like a Damoclean sword.  Yet, even two decades removed from the Navy’s 1991 Tailhook scandal, it remains a deeply ingrained part of military culture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hogwash.  I&#8217;ve recently finished a career in the military and now work for a fortune 500 company.  Comparing shipboard 24/7 life to 8 hour work days in glass tower is ridiculous.  What many watch on your TV screen after they go home each night is several times as sexist and homophobic.  Captain Honors has been fired and DADT is dead.  Please explain how this somehow indicate that the military doesn&#8217;t get it and that this behavior is pervasive?  There are bad eggs in the coporate world and they make headlines&#8211;and sexual harassment is no more pervasive in the military than it is in the private world. Those that say otherwise haven&#8217;t served in both worlds since 1991.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fixing Social Security by Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/social-security/fixing-social-security/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 18:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=68399#comment-304</guid>
		<description>This is a bit too simple minded. Have you forgotten that Baby Boomers have PAID INTO Social Security more than any other generation?  How exactly do you propose to to phase it out?  Yes, something has to be done, but I suspect it will be solved by weakening the dollar and therefore diluting benefits rather than eliminating it.  Like the deficit overall, there is no political will to solve with solid accounting.  Further, I don&#039;t buy your point that Social Security is patronizing.  Requiring all workers to put something away for eventual retirement and possible early disability is not exactly rare in first world nations.  It beats having to pay welfare to the 75% of Americans that cannot seem to save a dime otherwise.  Finally, the proposal to lift the cap on earnings taxed by SocSec makes this more akin to a welfare program than a retirement program.  The middle class is not being soaked by Social Security anymore than it is by Federal Income Taxes.  The top 20% pay 80% of all federal taxes.  This is a retirement system--not a handout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a bit too simple minded. Have you forgotten that Baby Boomers have PAID INTO Social Security more than any other generation?  How exactly do you propose to to phase it out?  Yes, something has to be done, but I suspect it will be solved by weakening the dollar and therefore diluting benefits rather than eliminating it.  Like the deficit overall, there is no political will to solve with solid accounting.  Further, I don&#8217;t buy your point that Social Security is patronizing.  Requiring all workers to put something away for eventual retirement and possible early disability is not exactly rare in first world nations.  It beats having to pay welfare to the 75% of Americans that cannot seem to save a dime otherwise.  Finally, the proposal to lift the cap on earnings taxed by SocSec makes this more akin to a welfare program than a retirement program.  The middle class is not being soaked by Social Security anymore than it is by Federal Income Taxes.  The top 20% pay 80% of all federal taxes.  This is a retirement system&#8211;not a handout.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Our Military Needs to Boost Morals, not Morale by Ed Hinton</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/defense/our-military-needs-to-boost-morals-not-morale/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jan 2011 14:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66676#comment-298</guid>
		<description>Bingo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Do They Mean by &#8220;American Exceptionalism?&#8221; by Rick Bayan</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/culture-and-values/what-do-they-mean-by-american-exceptionalism/comment-page-1/#comment-296</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Bayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66239#comment-296</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, Stephen. You neatly unmasked American exceptionalism in all its naked self-righteousness, without knocking genuine patriotism. We should be able to display appropriate pride in our republic without either considering ourselves superior to other nations or (even more dangerously) assuming that our greatness somehow excuses us from the rules that apply to other nations. 

On the right today, American exceptionalism has become a kind of shibboleth: if you accept it, you&#039;re accepted; if you don&#039;t accept it, you&#039;re the enemy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, Stephen. You neatly unmasked American exceptionalism in all its naked self-righteousness, without knocking genuine patriotism. We should be able to display appropriate pride in our republic without either considering ourselves superior to other nations or (even more dangerously) assuming that our greatness somehow excuses us from the rules that apply to other nations. </p>
<p>On the right today, American exceptionalism has become a kind of shibboleth: if you accept it, you&#8217;re accepted; if you don&#8217;t accept it, you&#8217;re the enemy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pick Up the Axe &#8211;  Strike at the Root: CenterMovement.org Preparing to Rebuild Democracy by Solomon Kleinsmith</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/campaign-reform/pick-up-the-axe-strike-at-the-root-centermovement-org-preparing-to-rebuild-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomon Kleinsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 05:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66858#comment-293</guid>
		<description>You picked three great issues... all supported by super majorities in the populace and all at the root of many of our problems.

The term limits issue is a tough one though. The Supreme Court already ruled them unconstitutional back in &#039;95. I haven&#039;t looked much into the issue, have some think tanks come up with some new ways to go at the issue from a legal standpoint? Otherwise it&#039;ll just get struck down in lower courts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You picked three great issues&#8230; all supported by super majorities in the populace and all at the root of many of our problems.</p>
<p>The term limits issue is a tough one though. The Supreme Court already ruled them unconstitutional back in &#8216;95. I haven&#8217;t looked much into the issue, have some think tanks come up with some new ways to go at the issue from a legal standpoint? Otherwise it&#8217;ll just get struck down in lower courts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Do They Mean by &#8220;American Exceptionalism?&#8221; by Ed Hinton</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/culture-and-values/what-do-they-mean-by-american-exceptionalism/comment-page-1/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 03:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=66239#comment-282</guid>
		<description>Interesting read.  I think one definition was missed that I believe characterized much of what I heard last year:  the idea that each individual has ultimate control over his or her own success or failure, that despite varied circumstances, if we are freed from most government control and not articificially propped up when we stumble, that like those before us, we have the ability to succeed in improving our own lives and the lives of those around us.  It is the success that comes from another old carch-phrase of the past:  &#039;rugged individualism&#039;.  That doesn&#039;t mean every single individual will always be successful, nor does it mean we let people perish when at the very tail end of their rope, but it does mean that as a people we will excel most because of our individual efforts, not the efforts of the government collective.

While some may have meant some fo the other definitions given, I believe some variant on this last interpretation is closer to the hearts and minds of more of those who would use the term.  And that interpretation is also quite consistent with De Tocqueville&#039;s &#039;Democracy in America&#039; (one of my favorite books on my bookshelves.)  The settlers of America didn&#039;t have a nanny state to take care of them, and yet they accomplished more than any nation before them in the history of the world.  That was American Exceptionalism - even with all its warts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting read.  I think one definition was missed that I believe characterized much of what I heard last year:  the idea that each individual has ultimate control over his or her own success or failure, that despite varied circumstances, if we are freed from most government control and not articificially propped up when we stumble, that like those before us, we have the ability to succeed in improving our own lives and the lives of those around us.  It is the success that comes from another old carch-phrase of the past:  &#8216;rugged individualism&#8217;.  That doesn&#8217;t mean every single individual will always be successful, nor does it mean we let people perish when at the very tail end of their rope, but it does mean that as a people we will excel most because of our individual efforts, not the efforts of the government collective.</p>
<p>While some may have meant some fo the other definitions given, I believe some variant on this last interpretation is closer to the hearts and minds of more of those who would use the term.  And that interpretation is also quite consistent with De Tocqueville&#8217;s &#8216;Democracy in America&#8217; (one of my favorite books on my bookshelves.)  The settlers of America didn&#8217;t have a nanny state to take care of them, and yet they accomplished more than any nation before them in the history of the world.  That was American Exceptionalism &#8211; even with all its warts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Some Friendly Advice for No Labels by Ed Hinton</title>
		<link>http://www.centermovement.org/topics-issues/politics/some-friendly-advice-for-no-labels/comment-page-1/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centermovement.org/?p=65363#comment-278</guid>
		<description>Much more detailed positions would also be theonly way to have a hope of dispelling the impression the current &#039;deep dives&#039; give.  The only materials present there currently are not centrist at all.  They only constitute &#039;compromise&#039; is the word is defined as conservatives saying uncle and adopting the liberals approaches.  Compromise doesn;t mean the other side just giving in.  It means finding positive solutions that require BOTh ends to shift to the real center, not both ends settling on one side (the left).  So far, the deep dives are well left of center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much more detailed positions would also be theonly way to have a hope of dispelling the impression the current &#8216;deep dives&#8217; give.  The only materials present there currently are not centrist at all.  They only constitute &#8216;compromise&#8217; is the word is defined as conservatives saying uncle and adopting the liberals approaches.  Compromise doesn;t mean the other side just giving in.  It means finding positive solutions that require BOTh ends to shift to the real center, not both ends settling on one side (the left).  So far, the deep dives are well left of center.</p>
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